A recent article in the American Political Science Review (APSR) by John R. Alford, Carolyn L. Funk, and John R. Hibbing claims that political orientation is, to some extent, genetic. The New York Times reviews the APSR piece here. A number of bloggers are also commenting on the piece, however, what they respond to is not the APSR article, but the New York Times review of the article. Since I am a subscriber to the APSR (yes, I know, hard to believe) I thought it might be worth something to throw in my two cents. After all, I seem to be the only blogger who's actually read the study (although I can't say this definitively, e-mail me or send a trackback if you also have read it).

I normally avoid this kind of discussion at this blog, but the topic was just so compelling.

The purpose of the article is summed up by the authors:

"In this article, we combine relevant findings in behavioral genetics with our own analysis of data on a large sample of twins to test the hypothesis that, contrary to the assumptions embedded in political science research, political attitudes have genetic as well as environmental causes."

The literature review for the piece sums up what all political scientists already know, namely that:

"Conspicuously absent is consideration of the possibility that certain attitudes and behaviors may be at least partially attributable to genetic factors."

Still, the connection is rarely so simple that a given genetic allele can be seen as causing a certain behavior. More typically, findings in modern behavioral genetics reveal the effect of genes to be interactive rather than direct, let alone determinative.

The issue is not nature versus nurture but the manner in which nature interacts with nurture.

Count me a little skeptical: For one, unless these are studies on twins raised apart, you need to account for the fact that being raised as someone's identical twin is a difference in family environment that could conceivably shape one's attitudes in various subtle ways.

Other evidence against the exclusive environmental argument is that the empirical results suggest MZ twins reared together are often less likely to share behavioral traits with their twins than are MZ twins reared apart, presumably because of extra efforts to establish distinct identities when the twins live together. In addition, as adult MZ [identical] twins living apart age, they tend to become more, not less, similar (Bouchard and McGue 2003), a finding that is difficult to reconcile with the belief that only the environment matters.

The authors do not argue that genetics makes one a Republican or Democrat. Indeed, people like me who are Libertarian with Republican leanings may not fit at all into the study if such were the assertion. Rather, they base the study on the notion that certain character traits are to some extent inherited. Character traits such as openness in turn are translated into social attitudes. These social attitudes are then transformed, to some extent, into political attitudes and later into political behavior. The genetic component, they predict, should be an important factor but certainly not the only one or even the most important one.

The image below is Table 1 of the study (I have the study in both .PDF and .html versions). Click on the image for a larger version. The variables are controlled for sex since obviously fraternal twins sometimes are of opposite sex.

more...

Posted by: Rusty at 01:23 PM | Comments (24) | Add Comment
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For the last year burning your wife and daughter alive in an honor killing has been illegal in Pakistan. Hey, at least it's illegal.........

What's white and red and kills while surrendering? French suicide bomber.

Most suicide bombers in Iraq NOT French.

And now we pause for this musical interlude. Brought to you by Suicidal Tendencies

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming

Spain arrests 5 more misunderstanderers of the Religion of Peace.

New terms set for Gitmo detainees. Heh.

Another word from our sponsors. Again from their 1983 self-titled album

Syria?? Letting people finance terrorism??? Are you sure we're talking about the same Syria here????

Coming soon to NBC Wednesday nights: Rafsanjani Based on the stand up comedy of Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. Don't miss the pilot where Rafsanjani's quirky neighbor, Achmed, loses the 'master of his domain' bet and gets his hand chopped off.

UPDATE: e-mail a terrorist!! Click here to e-mail site owner of The Official Jihad Support Group.

UPDATE II: Preston has the funny, even if that pic is a little, you know, G-A-Y...

Posted by: Rusty at 11:09 AM | Comments (47) | Add Comment
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Sullie was kind enough to throw me a link last week in a rare show of solildarity with those who think clearly, understand that words mean things, and that the rhetoric coming out of the Left is dangerous to the lives of our soldiers. He now backtracks and says he supports Dick Durbin's disgusting and immoral comments.

It is this administration that has brought indelible shame on America, and it's people like Dick Durbin who prove that some can actually stand up against this stain on American honor and call it what it is. Good for him. Thank God for him.

Related graphic.

Hat tip Unconventional Wisdom who sent the TB with no *cough* link.....

UPDATE: Slublog also taking Sullie to task. And as long as we're on the subject of criticizing other bloggers, The Commissar takes Cousin Ollie to task here and Kevin Drum here........

Posted by: Rusty at 10:01 AM | Comments (8) | Add Comment
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Who do I think is screwing up America? Last week John Hawkins of Right Wing News e-mailed 200 right-of-center bloggers asking them to come up with a list of the 20 people most responsible for screwing up America. 57 bloggers responded, including myself.

Here is the list I sent John. You can check out the results of John's poll here.

1 George Soros
2 Michael Moore
3 Noam Chomsky
4 Ted Kennedy
5 Nancy Pellosi
6 Oprah Winfrey
7 Simon Cowell (of reality TV fame)
8 Markos Moulitsas 'Kos' Zunigas
9 Jesse Jackson
10 Marie F. Smith (President of AARP)
11 Howard Dean
12 Howard Zin
13 John Aravosis (Americablog)
14 Anthony Romero (ACLU Executive Director)
15 Ruth Bader Ginsburg
16 Stephen Breyer
17 David Souter
18 John Paul Stevens
19 Sandra Day O'Conner
20 Harry Reid

Any disagreements or people I left out?

Posted by: Rusty at 09:25 AM | Comments (46) | Add Comment
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Howdy folks.

Check out Evan Coyne Maloney's fine little point here. Why isn't the ACLU all upset about taxpayer dollars funding those Korans in Gitmo?

I mean, if there was a state-funded program to distribute bibles to every prisoner in a state prison, they'd blow a gasket.

Posted by: seedubya at 04:58 AM | Comments (22) | Add Comment
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Quick!! Somebody call the ACLU!!! Get Senator Durbin on the line!!!! Before Bush-Hitler's Rethuglican forces torture more innocent followers of the Religion of Peace!!!!!!!!

Via LGF this from the Miami Sun Sentinal:

Attorneys for two terrorism suspects tied to an alleged al-Qaida dirty bomb suspect are asking for the dismissal of a federal indictment against them based on a jailer's mishandling of a Quran and intimidating jail cell searches that removed handwritten papers in Arabic.

The defense claims the seizures from the cells of Adhan Amin Hassoun and Kifah Wael Jayyousi in May and June amount to government misconduct and an unconstitutional intrusion on trial preparation.

Jailers also disrespectfully tossed Hassoun's Quran on his bunk and left 8,000 pages of trial papers in disarray, his attorney Kenneth Swartz said in motions filed Friday....

On the Quran, a jail officer took a piece of paper with Arabic writing, but Hassoun explained that he had copied an excerpt from the holy book and showed him the matching text. The officer returned the paper and tossed the Quran on the bed.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:26 PM | Comments (22) | Add Comment
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Austin Bay:

We picked up GEN John Abizaid, who was already in Djibouti, and flew from East Africa to Afghanistan. While waiting for a chinook (Ch-47) helicopter to pick us up, I got a chance to check out the flight line. That included a quick look at the Dutch Air Force F-16s deployed to Afghanistan. At the moment I am north of Kabul at Bagram Air Base. The flight to Bagram is spectacular. At the moment the central valley is lush with crops. The Himalayas literally wall the valley, quickly leaping from rough, brown cliffs to the snow-capped peaks.

Posted by: Rusty at 08:20 PM | Comments (12) | Add Comment
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Kos--"So we are stuck in an unwinnable war, with a Right Wing that's increasingly shrill as they hold on desperately to the what last straws they have ("they hate America!" "Last throes!")."

Kos--"The insurgency is becoming more deadly, more effective, and it's nowhere near being defeated."

Kos readers, see this for debunking of claims terrorists, who you, like the MSM, like to call 'insurgents' are getting more effective.

Kos--"Yet the same idiots who now claim Saddam's torture rooms gave them justification to invade Iraq (while ignoring torture rooms in allied countries, like Uzbekistan), they now claim torture by our side is no big deal."

What TORTURE asshole? We are not claiming 'torture is no big deal', what we are claiming is that almost every single case of 'torture' you cite is not, in fact, torture. Abuse, maybe, but not 'torture' you fool!

The American military is in the business of rescuing prisoners from torture chambers, not in the business of putting prisoners in them. Example here (hat tip: Tim at Opinion Bug).

These are fighting words. The kind of words that in previous wars would have been censored (yes, there used to be actual, real, honest to goodness censorship during WWII). The kind of words that would land you in jail during times of total war.

If I sound shrill, it's only because I am tired of Kos and company. While they claim there is nothing worse than a soldier dying they forget there is one thing worse: a soldier dying in vain. To claim the Iraq war is lost is to turn the self-sacrifice of our brave soldiers into a futile mockery. Kos even goes so far as to make the claim that the Afghanistan war may have been a mistake since the insurgency is still very much alive there. As if we hadn't already won the Afghanistan campaign.

Kos is a disgusting human being, with no realization that the GWOT will never be won in the conventional sense. There is no nation-state the terrorists belong to to sign a cease-fire with. The truth is that we have already won in Iraq and Aghanistan. What we are fighting now is not the same war. Now it is a war against terrorist forces.

Wait. Maybe Kos does understand this. Maybe he just wishes we would surrender?

[Yes, this post keeps getting longer the more I think about it]

Posted by: Rusty at 01:59 PM | Comments (66) | Add Comment
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An al Qaeda linked group has threatened to behead a captive Iranian security officer named Shahab Mansouri if the new President did not release all members of 'The Organization of God's Soldiers' from Iranian jails. Al Arabiya television ran parts of the video in which the group is described as saying:

....it would send the hostage's head as a gift to the elected president if its demands are not met,

Posted by: Rusty at 01:28 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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It's stories like these that make me want to become an anti-immigration advocate. WaPo:

Sixteen foreign-born construction workers with phony immigration documents were able to enter a nuclear weapons plant in eastern Tennessee because of lax security controls, a federal report said Monday.

Controls at the Y-12 weapons plant have since been tightened and there was no evidence the workers had access to any sensitive documents, said the National Nuclear Security Administration, which oversees nuclear weapons facilities for the Department of Energy.

However, the DOE inspector general's office said in the report issued Monday that its field agents found "official use only" documents "lying unprotected in a construction trailer which was accessed by the foreign construction workers" at the plant.

"Thus, these individuals were afforded opportunities to access ... (this) information," the inspector general wrote. "We concluded that this situation represented a potentially serious access control and security problem."

The report, initiated by a tip in 2004, said the workers had fake green cards that certified them to work in the United States. Their cases were turned over to the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency for deportation.

Posted by: Rusty at 01:07 PM | Comments (12) | Add Comment
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UPDATE 6/21/05Yesterday we reported that Bilprasad "Binkumar" Gurung was Japanese. The name did not sound Japanese, but all media reports were that the victim was from Japan. Today, thanks to Chad Evenas for e-mailing me the story, we learn that Bilprasad "Binkumar" Gurung was probably from Nepal.

The Army of Ansar al-Sunna murdered 12 Nepalese civilians in August of last year. If you can stomach scrolling passed the images from the snuff-murder video made by the jihadis, take a minute to check out all the comments from Nepalese readers. The Nepalese may be Buddhist, but they certainly are not pacifists.

Khaleej Times:

Japan said Tuesday that a man Islamic extremists in Iraq said they had killed in an ambush on a convoy serving US-led forces was not Japanese, as stated by the militants.

“The name of the individual is clearly not Japanese. We believe the person was from another country,” said an official with the foreign ministry’s terrorism prevention division....

Gurung is a common name in Nepal.

The only group of terrorists worse than Abu Musab al Zarqawi's al Qaeda in Iraq are The Army of Ansar al Sunnah. These are some evil sadistic dudes. While they don't get as much press as Zarqawi's group (and they actually are loosely linked with Zarqawi) they do just as much damage and specialize in murdering Kurds and Turkish civilians. They announced today that they murdered a Japanese man Bilprasad "Binkumar" Gurung.

This is the same group that murdered Japanese hostage Akihiko Saito. It was Zarqawi who personally beheaded Japanese hostage Shosei Koda.

Developing.....

SITE:

Ansar al-Sunnah claims responsibility for the murder of Bilprasad (alias Binkumar) Gurung, a Japanese contractor for the America-Iraqi Solutions Group, and six of his guards who worked for the same corporation. The ambush of this convoy was executed yesterday, as the group was coming out of al-Walid Base near Ramadi, west of Baghdad.

According to the message, Gurung and his bodyguards were ambushed and the ensuing battle “killed them all, and also this dirty Westerner.” Two of the guards were indicated to have been captured and an “investigation” divulged that Gurung and the guards were on a “mission to distribute the non-believers’ guards (National Guards) salaries.” [SITE has more for subscribers]

American-Iraqi Solutions Group (AISG) is a specific grouping of international firms within Iraq and consists of a core American-Iraqi team all under Iraqi and American ownership. AISG is an assembly Iraqi and international firms that have come together to jointly work towards the reconstruction of Iraq.....

Due to security issues that currently exist in Iraq we are obligated to protect the safety and well being of our Iraqi staff, teams, and personnel. So as you read and learn more about AISG, please remember that some facts, names, pictures and specifics have been intentionally left out to protect our Iraqi staff who place their lives on the line to be partners in the reconstruction of their nation. We work hard towards the day when the security Iraq is stabilized and this concern will no longer be an issue.

AISS built an organization of professionals with cross cultural diversity who have years of experience in multiple levels of security development. AISS employs over 250 foreign professional security operators and managers. They coordinate missions with over 2000 personally trained Iraqi security forces making AISS the most unique security provider in Iraq. AISS tactfully designed a "Low Profile" mission attitude, there achieved goal allows them to move in and about Iraq with the least amount of attention with the greatest success. They designed 200 "Low Profile" vehicles for a varying number of missions each day.

Chijan said the badly decomposed bodies of another seven men, including one Iraqi and six believed to be "Asians," were brought to the hospital after being killed in a convoy ambush several days ago. Most had been shot in the face.

The slain Iraqi was identified as Ahmed Adnan, said his cousin, Hussein Ali.

Ali told the AP his cousin worked for the U.S.-owned American-Iraqi Solutions Group, a large company dealing in Iraqi reconstruction projects, with its headquarters in Carson City, Nev.

The company later sent the AP a statement saying 11 of its employees were killed Sunday when one of its five-vehicle supply convoys was ambushed east of Ramadi, 110 kilometres west of Baghdad, by up to 20 heavily armed bandits firing from an overpass.

In the Internet claim, the militant group Ansar al-Sunnah Army said its fighters attacked a convoy leaving a base near the town of Ramadi, killing the seven men and capturing two other Iraqi guards. The statement did not say when the attack took place.

The claim could not be confirmed. The statement, posted on a web forum often used by Ansar al-Sunnah and other militant groups, included pictures of the contractor's identification cards.

The cards identified him as Binkumar Gurung, working for the American-Iraq Solution Group, contracted by the Pentagon. The cards included a licence to carry weapons.

The statement said the contractor was Japanese, but no passport was included and his picture and name appeared to be South Asian. One of the cards also gave his name as "Gurung Bilprasad, alias Binkumar."

UPDATE: Apparently, Ansar al-Sunna is using an e-mail list these days. Vlad has a copy of the original posting here if you speak Arabic. Below are images posted along with the communique. Besides Bilprasad "Binkumar" Gurung, the following men were also murdered by Ansar al-Sunnah and photos of their identification badges posted by the terrorists:
Mahmoud Yasin Mahdi
Omar Khaery Haren
Farook Jamal Helal
Ahmed Adnan
Mohaned Khddayer Abbas more...

Posted by: Rusty at 11:37 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Ok, I'm not 100% sure how to take Porter Goss' cryptic allusions to bin Laden's whereabouts. Here's the question: If the U.S. knows where bin Laden is yet refuses to bomb his location for fear of violating 'sovereignty', then haven't we already abandonded the Bush doctrine of making no distinction between terrorists and the nations that give them refuge?

Further, let us suppose bin Laden is in, say, Iran, and the Iranians would nab him if they could but bin Laden is in an area which is not fully under government control. Would bombing said area really be a violation of 'sovereignty' if the nation is not actually in control of the area? I recall that Grotius uses just such a circumstance in his defense of just war. Further, the case of U.S. troops going into Mexico after Pancho Villa is another example.

NY Times via Polipundit (subscription):

The director of the CIA says he has an ''excellent idea'' where Osama bin Laden is hiding, but that the United States' respect for sovereign nations makes it more difficult to capture the al-Qaida chief...

''When you go to the question of dealing with sanctuaries in sovereign states, you're dealing with a problem of our sense of international obligation, fair play,'' Goss said. ''We have to find a way to work in a conventional world in unconventional ways.''

Asked whether that meant he knew where bin Laden is, Goss responded: ''I have an excellent idea where he is. What's the next question?''

Bin Laden, wanted for the 9/11 attacks, is believed to be hiding in Pakistan's tribal region bordering Afghanistan.

My own gut feeling is that bin Laden is somewhere in Africa. I have speculated in the past that bin Laden, who is a mystical believer in his own prophetic powers, would return to the scene where his first 'vision' became a reality: Somalia. However, the recent upsurge in violence in the Western Sahara has led me to rethink that position. Al Qaeda in Iraq recently congratulated the SCMP for the expanding of their terrorist activities out of Algeria and into Mauratania. It is very possible that bin Laden, then, has found refuge with the SCMP.

Posted by: Rusty at 11:11 AM | Comments (11) | Add Comment
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The end is near, James Joyner is engaged. Congrats dude.

Posted by: Rusty at 10:43 AM | No Comments | Add Comment
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Two important updates to our Iraq hostage watch. First, several people made me aware some time ago that hostage William Bradley's body was discovered earlier in the year. Boston.com:

The body of a civilian truck driver missing since April in Iraq has been found near the place where his convoy was ambushed nine months ago.

William Bradley, 50, lived in Chesterfield before going to Iraq nearly a year ago to drive trucks for Texas-based Halliburton Co., which on Thursday announced the discovery of his remains.

The former Marine was in a fuel truck convoy that was ambushed near Baghdad on April 9.

Second, a little noticed blurb from Douglas Wood. It seems that Mr. Wood barely escaped death but that two other hostages being held in the same room were not so lucky. The Sunday Mail:

DOUGLAS Wood has revealed he feared he was next to die after two fellow hostages were executed by his kidnappers in Iraq.

From what I have been able to deduce from published reports, the two hostages would have been murdered sometime between May 6th and May 9th. Yet no hostage murder videos or statements appeared during this time frame.

If any one has information on who the two victims were, please e-mail me.

Posted by: Rusty at 09:44 AM | Comments (1) | Add Comment
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Call former hostage Douglas Wood the 'anti-Sgrena'. Unlike that Communist serial liar and terror supporter who decided on her own it would be a good idea to shoot a video and beg the Italian people to pressure the Berlusconi government to withdraw troops from Iraq, Douglas Wood only made similar pleas because an AK-47 was pointed at his head.

Yesterday, in a brief interview with the press, Wood apologized to President Bush, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Prime Minister Howard. He also reiterated his support for the no negotiations with terrorists policy of the Allied governments. Melbourne Herald Sun:

"Frankly I'd like to apologize to both President (George W.) Bush and Prime Minister (John) Howard for the things I said under duress," said Mr Wood "I actually believe that I am proof positive that the current policy of training the Iraqi army ... works because it was Iraqis that got me out," he added.

In the original hostage video, which I transcribed here, Wood can be heard saying:

President Bush, Prime Minister Howard, Governor Schwarzenegger, family, friends, please help take the American troops, the Australian troops, the British troops out of here and let Iraq look out for itself.

"I didn't know whether it was al-Qaida or who it was," he said. "My head is intact, so it wasn't al-Qaida."

Posted by: Rusty at 09:25 AM | Comments (7) | Add Comment
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By Demosophist

I'm slowly becoming enraged as I watch Stephen Spielberg's latest epic Into the West, which purports to recount the history of a family in Virginia as they migrate westward and merge with the native Americans they encounter. It's hard for me to put my finger on what it is that bothers me about Spielberg's tale, but the essence of the problem is that it's inauthentic. And it's not one single thing that gives me that impression, but more like the fact that I grew up in a family in which the pioneering generation was only once removed from my own. Therefore, the stories really weren't that old when I heard them recounted by people who actually knew the principals. I actually knew my great grandmother, who had become the matriarch of the family by the time I was old enough to toddle around. I actually touched the bridge to that past so inauthentically recounted by Spielberg. more...

Posted by: Demosophist at 01:03 AM | Comments (14) | Add Comment
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By Demosophist

Honestly, I'm so naive. I figured the story about the Downing Street Memos that fueled the make-believe Conyers hearings was just another in the long list of controversies over interpretation that plague the ideological divide, like the fracas over "imminent threat." It never entered my head that the memos are actually no more real than the Rathergate fakes. What's a creative new word for "surprised," now that Sullivan has violated the term "gobsmacked?" Yeah I'm that, and then some.

Update: more...

Posted by: Demosophist at 10:17 PM | Comments (10) | Add Comment
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Man I'm nervous as a girl with a bad reputation on Easter Sunday. Here are a couple links to GWT stories this Sunday. I doubt that anyone will have to suffer through more of my opinions until next week.

Happy Fathers day all.

Car bomb exploded in resturant

Douglass Wood returns home

And for perspective on what we could be dealing with.

YBP you have got to see the image in the story.

Posted by: Howie at 06:53 PM | Comments (4) | Add Comment
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I spent some time watching the interview of Senator John McCain’s on “NBC NEW’S MEET THE PRESS”. I had few thoughts afterward. About party, the war, and politics in general.

link to MTP transcript

If you are a Republican trying to “Casey Jones” the Democrats and change the rules of the Senate so that the President can get every judge he wants. If you take advantage of our majority and use it to pay back every contributor and push everything past the minority. You put yourselves before our party and before our country.

If a Democrat, filibustering every judge that comes across your desk. Spouting terms like Nazi and Gulag to try and make your point on GITMO. Playing politics with the war and failing to support the President. If you think this war is that trivial. You are putting your party before your nation.

If you are right or left wing and you bite on all the wedge issues like abortion and stem cell research or other moral distractions that never die and then vote for President based on these alone. You are putting your ideals before your duty.

If you are a moderate of either party, or an independent, or just a citizen, and you failed to vote for whom you thought might be a good candidate in a primary or general election because of party or laziness. Well just shut up about George Bush and get behind him. For if you had voted John McCain may have been President right now. The far right and left all vote, blame you.

Also for those who bother to read the transcript and I know itÂ’s hard. Just read some. The next President of the U.S.A., uh I mean Senator McCain gives a great example of the manner in which these issues should be dealt with. Some things are just above politics and I think he knows what those things are. LetÂ’s not start playing politics and forgetting there is a war on. That is exactly what the enemy is counting on. ItÂ’s not fair to the people of this country, itÂ’s not fair to the men and women serving and dying, and itÂ’s most unfair to the people of Iraq who are depending on us to stick with them.

I like quotes, so hereÂ’s what I feel is his best one of the interview.

“But you know what I've found out? That every time I've done something for what may have been influenced by political reasons, I've regretted it. Every time that I've done something that I think is right, it's turned out OK in the end. I've got to do what I think is right. And if it offends a certain political constituency, I regret it, but there's really nothing I can do about it.”

Sen. John McCain R, AZ from
“NBC NEW’S MEET THE PRESS” aired 06/19/05.

Another link to the transcript

IÂ’m so jealous of Arizona.

Posted by: Howie at 06:34 PM | Comments (6) | Add Comment
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Well Rusty has allowed me to post a few things when I can find them. So IÂ’ll try and add a few relevant links during the week. I also may express an opinion or two. But IÂ’ll try to save making an ass out of myself for the comment sections. Rusty and I have the same problem we have real jobs too. So there will be no way I could possibly answer a whole lot of email should that happen. But IÂ’ll try and skim it for links and stuff to post up. Maybe some of you regulars here can help with that. Please send links to either Rusty or myself but not both so we can avoid duplicate posts. Rusty allows links in the comment sections as well. The object from my perspective is to give Rusty more time to do whatever he does like write meaty opinions. Possibly I might learn a bit from the process. I have no idea what heÂ’s thinking, he tells me nothing. Please post responses and argue as always as I think we all get a lot out of that. And nowÂ….

ISSUE ONE, PATRIOT ACT.

See this Yahoo story

Text of patriot act here.

The House last week passed an extension of the “Patriot Act” which makes searches of library records and such more difficult. The President has vowed to veto it. Some civil liberties groups have hailed this as a major improvement. Also the new bill would make the law Permanent and would require further action by Congress to repeal.

QUESTION?

What are the pros and cons of the new Patriot Act and should it be passed? What changes, etc, etc? And should anyone think that this “concession” is better than a simple extension with an expiration date?

I ask you, my fellow civil libertarian and recently reformed, Greg?

Eleanor? Uh I mean Filthy?

Sorry, I know I shouldnÂ’t have. But I always wanted to do that.

Posted by: Howie at 06:19 PM | Comments (26) | Add Comment
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1 What you'll find Howie is that 99% of critics of the PATRIOT Act do not know what its provisions actually are, and exactly how it changed existing law. Instead, they repeat false claims and exaggerations.

Posted by: Robin Roberts at June 19, 2005 07:24 PM (xauGB)

2 Robin speaks the truth. I know of no one outside of KOS-land who makes any claim that their life has been negatively impacted by the Patriot Act (or impacted in any way for that mattter).

Posted by: EvilMe at June 19, 2005 09:25 PM (hi8LV)

3 What I want to know is why it's easier to slip under the radar getting a gun than it is to do some reading of "questionable material"... I'm not anti-gun, but damn if it ain't easy for nutjobs to get one. I love how Bush, inc. gives the opposite names to things it's trying to pass to trick those who are asleep in our government into going, "Huh? Where do I sign? When's lunch?". Anyway, as you know I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act, since I think it's eroding our hard won American freedoms and rights. What does everyone else think? (besides "fuck you osamabinbitchin' lib bastard")

Posted by: osamabeensellin'tinfoil at June 19, 2005 11:40 PM (buka0)

4 Yes Sahib, you have question for the Filthy one?

Posted by: Filthy Allah at June 20, 2005 07:46 AM (yBHNA)

5 Be specific osama. In what ways specifically has the patriot act 'eroded our freedoms and rights'? Until you can answer that question, you just come accross as hysterical and uninformed. Oh yeah, fuck you osamabinbitchin' you lib bastard.

Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 08:37 AM (jPCiN)

6 Well, I guess 40 Republicans, some known as staunch conservatives, voted for the amendment to be amended anyway...(238 to 187). So that's quite a majority. To be specific, I don't want people monitoring what I read. How is that for a start?

Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 20, 2005 10:19 AM (buka0)

7 Fair enough osama, I wouldn't much want that either. However, is that what's happening? Is it ok for the FBI to moniter a persons reading if they are already a suspect, or should that be out as well?

Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 10:40 AM (jPCiN)

8 As Robin suggests, few people have read the Patriot Act, including the congress critters who voted for it. "It's my understanding the bill wasn't printed before the vote — at least I couldn't get it. They played all kinds of games, kept the House in session all night, and it was a very complicated bill. Maybe a handful of staffers actually read it, but the bill definitely was not available to members before the vote." –Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX). The bill was rammed through congress a few weeks after 9-11 and during the Anthrax scare. In this atmosphere of hysteria, congress critters were given a couple of days to act on it. It was overwhelmingly passed. What is so bad about the new law? "Generally," says Rep. Ron Paul, "the worst part of this so-called antiterrorism bill is the increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants." He is referring to Section 213 (Authority for Delaying Notice of the Execution of a Warrant), also known as the "sneak-and-peek" provision, which effectively allows police to avoid giving prior warning when searches of personal property are conducted. Before the USA PATRIOT Act, the government had to obtain a warrant and give notice to the person whose property was to be searched. With one vote by Congress and the sweep of the president's pen, say critics, the right of every American fully to be protected under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures was abrogated. Under the USA PATRIOT Act in this country, Section 802 defines domestic terrorism as engaging in "activity that involves acts dangerous to human life that violate the laws of the United States or any state and appear to be intended: (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping." Under this broad definition, a scuffle at an otherwise peaceful pro-life demonstration might subject attendees to a federal investigation. We have seen abuses of law enforcement authority in the past to harass individuals or organizations with unpopular political views. Congress has given future administrations a tool to investigate pro-life or gun rights organizations on the grounds that fringe members of such groups advocate violence. According to Rep. Ron Paul, “Many of the most constitutionally offensive measures in the Act are not limited to terrorist offenses, but apply to any criminal activity. In fact, some of the new police powers could be applied even to those engaging in peaceful protest against government policies. The bill as written defines terrorism as acts intended "to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion." According to this definition, any act of civil disobedience now falls under the umbrella of terrorism. The Act makes it far easier for the government to monitor your Internet usage by adopting a lower standard than probable cause for intercepting e-mails and Internet communications. The Act also allows the government to order librarians and bookstores owners to report the ‘literary consumptive’ practices of individuals. Librarians around the country have led the charge against this provision in the Patriot Act, arguing that Americans have always been free to read whatever they choose without being monitored by government. The Act also gives the government the power to access your medical and tax records. Some of these ‘flawed’ provisions are set to expire at the end of the year. But President Bush wants to make them permanent and even strengthen the Act, and the House and Senate have been holding hearings in preparation for votes. These are just a tiny fraction of the numerous provisions that conflict with the Constitution. The Act, rather than focusing on ‘terrorists’, as you and I would define them, focuses on American citizens. Companions to the Act contain ‘lone wolf’ provisions and FBI pamphlets have been produced and distributed that warn people to be on the look out for people who call themselves Constitutionalists, and to turn them in. Clearly this act further subordinates American citizens to the whims of government. It brings us one step closer to Martial Law. There are over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States. It is apparent that the government is prepared to round up dissidents should the voice of dissent reach a critical mass. This is no longer a country governed by the people for the people. The people are now viewed as an impediment to the consolidation of power currently being undertaken by the government. The future is coming into focus. I see tanks in the streets. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, -- The Declaration of Independence

Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 11:11 AM (/+dAV)

9 DG...I think snooping library records is crap. Think of how easy it is to get into this country, fake ID's, absurd airport security, weak or nonexistent security involving major water supplies, buildings, bridges, etc. Need a gun? Easier than opening a bank account. Those things worry me more than someone's reading habits. I want results and confidence, not big brother.

Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 20, 2005 11:19 AM (p0lNZ)

10 Greg: I thought you would like that subject.

Posted by: Howie at June 20, 2005 11:43 AM (D3+20)

11 He whose name I shall not repeat said: "Anyway, as you know I'm not a big fan of the Patriot Act, since I think it's eroding our hard won American freedoms and rights. What does everyone else think?" I think that the Patriot Act is a necessary evil, but should definitely have a periodic renewal requirement and should never, EVER, become permanent law. Such laws have a way of far outlasting their time, and becoming tools for oppression after their original purpose has expired. I oppose its permenence for the same reason as many others; it can be used by corrupt politicians to attack political opponents, i.e., Hillary "filegate" Clinton. The Patriot Act itself doesn't bother me an infinitessimal fraction as much4 as a judiciary that is completely out of touch with the Constitution and beyond control of the President, Congress, and the People. When the judiciary exceeds its legal bounds and begins to actively legislate from the bench with little or no regard for the Constitution or American legal and social tradition, then I think it doesn't matter what legislation Congress passes, we're screwed. Congress is like a carnival sideshow with misbehaving monkeys, but the Courts are a big-top three-ring circus with all the elephants gone rogue. Anyone who thinks it's okay for judges to exceed their Contitutional powers just because they happen to agree on a point of contention is just asking for trouble, because once the precedent of excess is established, it's almost impossible to correct. P.S: Fuck you osamabinbitchin' lib bastard.

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 11:54 AM (0yYS2)

12 Damn all my typo's today. DAMN THEM TO HELL!!!

Posted by: Improbulus Maximus at June 20, 2005 12:05 PM (0yYS2)

13 "DG...I think snooping library records is crap." I agree, when there is no reason to do so. However, I want the feds to have the rights to investigate the reading habits of those they suspect of terrorism links. "Think of how easy it is to get into this country, fake ID's, absurd airport security, weak or nonexistent security involving major water supplies, buildings, bridges, etc. " Not sure what you mean here. Are you really trying to say that since these things are worrisome that they somehow negate the issues of terrorism in general? "Need a gun? Easier than opening a bank account. " I assume you are talking about the illegal purchases of firearms. Please remember that the 2nd holds that it is your right to own guns. "Those things worry me more than someone's reading habits. I want results and confidence, not big brother." Again, your arguments just don't hold water. If you suspect that someone might be a potential terrorist, and have good reasons for that suspicion, then why hamstring the police by not allowing them access to library records?

Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 12:13 PM (jPCiN)

14 Howie, Good call. DG, The government isn't accessing the library or book purchasing activities of terrorists, they are doing it to American dissidents. Most think that the war is in Iraq. The real war is here at home and were losing badly.

Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 01:07 PM (/+dAV)

15 Greg, remember that in here American dissidents are pretty much viewed as terrorists. DG, man...if you have some pretty solid facts behind someone being a suspected terrorist, you should be able to go after them. This includes any records. The problem I have is in HOW that suspicion is established, not how preventative measures are carried out. I think this completely holds water, btw. I also don't see what you didn't get when talking about water supplies, bridges, etc. since these are major vulnerabilities in our major cities. Cripple or infect can be a nasty, but effective method. Anyway, I gotta run. I'll be back later after Greg gets banned again. IM, P.S. Damn you for making me agree with you so many times in the past week!

Posted by: osamabeenlibbin' at June 20, 2005 01:36 PM (p0lNZ)

16 DG: "If you suspect that someone might be a potential terrorist, and have good reasons for that suspicion, then why hamstring the police by not allowing them access to library records?" The government/police have never been 'hamstrung'. Previously the government needed at least a warrant and probable cause to access private records. The Fourth Amendment, Title III of the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act of 1968, and case law provided that if the state wished to search you, it needed to show probable cause that a crime had been committed and to obtain a warrant from a neutral judge. Probable cause and a warrant are no longer needed. The government can now investigate the private records of anyone, for any reason it deems appropriate.

Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 01:48 PM (/+dAV)

17 "....increased ability of the federal government to commit surveillance on all of us without proper search warrants." Many forget why all these issues are brought up in the Patriot Act to begin with. It was "too hard" to get warrants to search certain records, seize computers, etc. THAT'S what led to 9/11. The fear of treading on rights is what kept them from taking decisive action in way too many instances. They don't want to just snoop on any ordinary Joe-on-the-street. It's a total waste of time. They want the ability to do so if there is probable reason to do so. And I WANT them to search [insert suspect's name here] house or computer or library records if he gives good reason to do so.

Posted by: Oyster at June 20, 2005 01:50 PM (fl6E1)

18 "Probable cause and a warrant are no longer needed. The government can now investigate the private records of anyone, for any reason it deems appropriate." That is not the way I understand it. The police are still required to get a warrent, but do not have to tell the suspect that it is being served. I'm not saying I love it, but it does help to not have to show your cards before you are done investigating. I also don't want it to last forever. I like the sunset provisions and the conversations that we have on its renewal.

Posted by: Defense Guy at June 20, 2005 02:00 PM (jPCiN)

19 Oyster: 'Many forget why all these issues are brought up in the Patriot Act to begin with. It was "too hard" to get warrants to search certain records, seize computers, etc. THAT'S what led to 9/11. The fear of treading on rights is what kept them from taking decisive action in way too many instances.' Horse puckey! David Schippers, Chief Council for the House Judiciary Committee and head prosecutor responsible conducting the impeachment against former President Clinton, went public revealing that prior to 9-11, many FBI agents had come to him informing him about the impending attacks. These agents knew the names of the hijackers, the targets of their attacks, the proposed dates, and the sources of the terrorists' funding, etc., many months in advance of the 9/11 attacks. The FBI command pulled them off of their investigations into these terrorists and threatened them with the National Security Act saying that if they talked about any of the information pertaining to their investigations they would be prosecuted. Consequently, many of them sought the council of Mr. Schippers hoping to get somebody in the U.S. government to take action against these terrorists before their plan could be implemented. Mr. Schippers talked to many Congressmen and Senators, and tried to get a hold of Att. Gen. John Ashcroft, all only to get the run-around. Mr. Schippers is now legally representing at least ten of these FBI agents in a suit against the U.S. government in an attempt to subpoena their testimony, where they can then legally tell what they know and legally get it on record. The pre-9-11 investigation was obstructed by bureaucrats, not the courts, and only God knows why.

Posted by: greg at June 20, 2005 02:16 PM (/+dAV)

20 WRONG!!!! The answer is : The consessions will be erased in conference after the Senate takes this up. The bill will be permanent. It will prove useful in the GWT but later the law will be turned inward on ourselves thereby striking a terrible blow to freedom. Thus causing greg to suffer a minor head explosion. He then will sell out and move to patagonia where he will raise sheep and Lamas. Bye Bye Next time Howie attempts to create links that go places. Stay tuned.

Posted by: Howie at June 20, 2005 03:46 PM (D3+20)

21 IM wrote "When the judiciary exceeds its legal bounds and begins to actively legislate from the bench with little or no regard for the Constitution or American legal and social tradition, then I think it doesn't matter what legislation Congress passes, we're screwed." Damn, you know it didn't register till just now, but I think I might have said those exact words about 5 years ago when the Florida recount was stopped! Though, Gore can wipe my ass with a thousand hanging chads 'cause I didn't like him either.

Posted by: osamabeenvotin' at June 20, 2005 04:42 PM (p0lNZ)

22 The government is more than welcome to investigate my private records. I can't see the harm. That is being a patriot I have nothing to fear. Perhaps, some others have something to fear. If looking into my personal records or library books I have read helps root out those who would kill innocent people I say more power to them.

Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 01:07 AM (CBNGy)

23 GR: I don't think it's about that. I think most people are afraid of these powers being abused, or afraid to read something which might place them under suspicion. That's great that you have nothing to hide, but what if we lived in a country where your views expressed on these blogs got you arrested without trial or a lawyer to be held indefinitely? Many people who have no intentions on being or helping a terrorist have plenty to fear about the government intruding on their privacy.

Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 23, 2005 12:21 PM (CYGDF)

24 What if? The truth is I don't live in a country like you describe. What if an elephant runs through my cattle fences tonight? Should I build an elephant proof fence just in case? The fact that Greg and Colon Babler haven't been arrested and hung for treason is proof that we do not live in a country where people are arrested for expressing their views. You have to come with a factual claim not an if to convince me. How many innocent lives can be saved? That should be the major concern.

Posted by: greyrooster at June 23, 2005 10:38 PM (CBNGy)

25 Which innocent lives...the blacks killed by your KKK or the Iraqis killed by our "smart bombs"?

Posted by: osamabeenthere at June 24, 2005 12:59 PM (CYGDF)

26 osamabeenthere: Neither of those. I'm far more interested in the number of whites attacked, robbed and killed by blacks today in the United States. Read the papers and face reality. The muggers are not white people wearing white sheets. There is more than a few areas of New Orleans I would like to drop you off in tonight. If you lived through it you would have a serious attitude adjustment. A real mind clearing experience. Reality will wake you up. A 38 slug through my stomach for not giving up my wallet 3 years ago woke me up. Result. 4 months in the hospital for me. One black mugger shot in the ass and now doing life in Angola. One black mugger escaped only to be killed a month later during a robbery. What happened in the past, if true I had nothing to do with. Nor do I hold todays Germans and Japanese responsible for what happened 60 years ago. Stupid to bring up or hold responsible todays Germans and Japanese for what happened under a different political climate. Also stupid to constantly remind them of it. This also applies to the stupid shouting of what the Glorious Knights of the Klu Klux Klan did nor did not do 60 years ago. As to the Iraqis killed by smart bombs. Pity. All they have to do is lay down their arms and turn in the terrorists and it would all stop. Pity they are too stupid and too stuborn to see the writing on the wall. If the scum bag islamic terrorists you feel pity for were not consentrating their efforts in Iraq they would be consentrating their resources in Europe and America. My personal opinion. Better them than mine. Better you than me. And I will do everything and anything to make it turn out that way. Also, so I am very clear. Muslims are the biggest threat to peace in the history of the world. More than the commies, more than the facists, more than the nazis. Everywhere this gutter religion is practiced. Nothing but trouble, killing, pain and suffering. Look around the world. Or are you as stupid and stuborn as the fucking islamofacists.

Posted by: greyrooster at June 24, 2005 09:44 PM (CBNGy)

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